Therapists on the Hostage Negotiation Team and Supporting Police Work: An interview with Dr. Andy Young

Sep 12, 2022

Therapists on the Hostage Negotiation Team and Supporting Police Work: An interview with Dr. Andy Young

Curt and Katie interview Andy Young about hostage (crisis) negotiation and his work with SWAT and crisis negotiation in Lubbock, TX. Content warning: discussion of violence, suicide, and homicide. We talk about what therapists can do within police departments, the interplay between mental health and law enforcement, what that work looks like – especially when involved in crisis negotiation, and skills therapists need when working in these settings. We also look at trauma response and how it is handled when things go south.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

An Interview with Dr. Andy Young

Dr. Andy Young has been a Professor of Psychology and Counseling at Lubbock Christian University since 1996 and a negotiator and psychological consultant with the Lubbock Police Department’s SWAT team since 2000. He also heads LPD’s Victim Services Unit and is the director of the department’s Critical Incident Stress Management Team. He has been on the negotiating team at the Lubbock County Sheriff’s Office since 2008 and is on the team at the Texas Department of Public Safety (Texas Rangers, Special Operations, Region 5). He is the author of, “Fight or Flight: Negotiating Crisis on the Frontline” and “When Every Word Counts: An Insider’s View of Crisis Negotiations.” He was recently added as a third author for the 6^th Edition of “Crisis Negotiations: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections”.

In this podcast episode, we talk about the role therapists can play in crisis negotiation

There have been many calls to defund the police and create roles for mental health professionals in law enforcement. Dr. Andy Young has already been doing this for 20 years. We talked with him about what that experience looks like.

What can therapists do for law enforcement?

Crisis counseling
Hostage or Crisis Negotiation support (advising on the negotiation)
Psychiatric consultation
Predicting violence or suicide, assessing subjects’ mental health

What is the interplay between mental health and law enforcement?

Police officers get 40 hours of active listening and mental health
Officers started out a bit stand-offish, reported increased mental load due to needing to protect mental health professionals at the scene
Finding value in taking mental health out of scope of law enforcement
There is a huge importance in developing relationship with the officers
Specialized training needed that can support integrating mental health providers into law enforcement teams

What does work look like for therapists in law enforcement and crisis negotiation?

Coaching on communication
Assessing the situation and the subject
Strategizing interventions to de-escalate the situation
Provide context and reassurance to law enforcement professionals
Hostage Negotiation calls are typically once to twice a month (and not every month).
There are successful outcomes 97% of the time

How do these law enforcement and mental health providers handle things when they go south?

“There's me and other people like me – therapists who understand the law enforcement culture, and even are trusted by the law enforcement culture – where officers will reach out for additional assistance if they believe that they need it [after a traumatic incident]. And of course, me being around just walking through the halls of the police department, inevitably, somebody will say, 'Hey, can I talk to you for a minute?' and then it gets personal”. – Dr. Andy Young

Crisis support
Critical Incident Stress Management
Mental health providers who are accepted within the law enforcement culture
The political, investigative and personal elements of a lethal force incident
Processing and debriefing within the team

What skills should therapists have to work with law enforcement and hostage negotiation?

“People get to make decisions for themselves. And we might be able to coach people on how to land the airplane, but they get to land the airplane themselves. And in my office, that's one thing. But out on the street where there's guns or elevated positions that we can jump off of or innocent people that we can kill. It's the same principle, but at its extreme, and it really tests a person about being able to apply that to yourself and your circumstances.” – Dr. Andy Young

Pragmatic and understanding the situation you’re in
Practical, knowing your own limits
Ability to manage emotional situations calmly
Navigating the extreme stakes out in the streets
Understanding law enforcement

The benefit of having a mental health provider on a hostage negotiation team

Training the team on mental health concerns
Improving “batting average” on successful outcomes
The importance of a well-trained team

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Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!
www.DrAndyYoung.com

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Treating First Responders: An interview with Yael Shuman, LMFT

Special Series: Psychiatric Crises in the Emergency Room

Who we are:

Curt Widhalm, LMFT

Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com

Katie Vernoy, LMFT

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.